Hello love,
We spent Thursday moving from one thing to the next.
“Nothing brings a city back like art”
We met with Lisa Mohler on the main strip of Pontiac, MI, about a 30 minutes’ drive North of Detroit. She took us on a tour of an intimate performance/venue space that she will manage after renovations.
She was very clear about its purpose: “we’re not creating a theatre group, it’s a venue.”
We met the man behind the project, Robert Karazim, who now owns several storefronts along the main drag in Pontiac.
He is investing not simply in property, but in the future of Pontiac. “It’s proven that nothing brings back a city like art.” He puts his money where his mouth is: he bought and is renovating a 90 seat venue space, and plans to open an art cafe.
He also started Canvas Pontiac which “invites local artists from around Michigan to submit and display their art to be shared on public display throughout Downtown Pontiac” (from their website).
And it may have proven his point; according to him — “since starting Canvas Pontiac every building on this street has sold.”
Very interesting work happening. We could definitely see ourselves touring to this theater, along with venues in Ferndale, Gross Point, and other municipalities in the Metro Detroit area; it’s possible that we would get entirely different audiences touring to these places, given Detroiters’ tendency to stay in their neighborhoods.
“Welcome to City Hall, where it’s a crap shoot whether you’ll get what you need”
A.J. O’Neil has been too kind to us. He has given us an up-close and personal look at the city from a businessman/activist and native Detroiter’s perspective.
But he went above and beyond when he arranged a meeting with Melvin “Butch” Hollowell, City Corporation Counsel.
We walked into the building to see a sign saying “Restrooms in the basement”; according to A.J. they don’t have the budget to have them on all floors.
He also said that the city and county share the building: Wayne County has its offices to the left of the entrance and the city has its offices to the right. Again, most likely budgetary.
We took the elevator up — to the fifth floor this time — and were shown into his office in less that five minutes.
This experience differs greatly from entering the palatial Quicken Loans building. The City Hall building was older, fewer smiles, more frank business. Dan Gilbert’s headquarters felt like a Wall Street penthouse hangout with offices.
We sat in Butch’s office 15 minutes past our appointment time — he was tied up in a meeting several floors away.
As we waited, A.J. talked to us about the current administration. “This mayor has people working 7am to 7pm and they don’t look up until it’s past dinner and they say “why am I still here?…One time I saw mayor Dugan, at that time candidate Dugan, drive by in an Escort to get to a TV interview.. And that’s when I knew he’d win. He’s a regular guy saying “I don’t need the trappings of this office I just want to get the job done.”
Then A.J.’s attention went to someone walking through the foyer.
The man who entered the office was nothing like I expected; he was no bookie or middleman, he was a leader. No surprise that he heads up a team of lawyers.
He had us all sit at one table and asked “who are you?”
We told him our purpose in town at which point he said of Detroit’s art scene “it’s hot because it’s edgy.” His information on the scene had little in the way of directing us to a plan: “we have an active theatre and film community here…the tax credits changed with the gubernatorial administration…we have the third most theater seats below New York…and Chicago maybe.”
He did give a lot of information about the progress the city has made since he and the mayor got to work. “We have more engineers per capita than anywhere else in the world…220 houses are torn down per week…we will have the entire city lit with LED streetlights eight months earlier than projected…the emergency response time is now 10 minutes, it used to be 18; the national standard is 8…police response time was an hour, now it’s 17 minutes; the national average is 10.”
A lot of positive stuff.
Here’s more: “I have a job performance review every Wednesday at 9 o’clock.” And it’s not just him; apparently people throughout the government are reviewed weekly, from people in law to police and fire to department of development. He used the department of transportation saying that if the buses run more than five minutes late (that’s the national average), they will replace those responsible. “We’re measured against deliverables every week…if it’s out of whack over so many weeks I’ll find someone else who can do it…it’s not for the faint of heart.”
At that point he was called back to action. “I’ve got the whole police department waiting for me.”
On his way out, though, his right-hand-lady said “the mayor requested your immediate presence to discuss the curfew.”
Busy man, many responsibilities…curfew, though?
A.J. sings Danny Boy.
View from the Sky
After that we had a dinner date with Kirk and his lady, Gail at the Skyline Club.
This was another palatial building, with an indoor garden and pond right inside the atrium.
Our ears popped as we rode the elevator to the 28th floor.
We had a wonderful gourmet dinner on Kirk (what a guy). While we ate, we filled Gail in on our purpose there and summarized our research, which was very good for us to solidify our ideas.
Gail commented that our presence has been very good for Kirk. He chimed in saying that it’s been the most incredible experience of his life: “it just doesn’t happen here or anywhere else, fellas.”
Then we brought out a present wrapped in a burlap bag that was used to transport coffee beans from Mexico, (courtesy of A.J). In it Kirk found two sketch books, a set of pens, graphite and charcoal pencils. He told us that he used to love drawing; pens and charcoal were his favorite medium.
We said goodbye to Gail and goodbye to Kirk for then, knowing the final farewell would happen a bit later.
“Hey boys! Aren’t you sexy”
We then drove over to Royal Oak to check out Drag Queen Bingo at Five15.
Richard Payton of Ringwald’s 10 Naked Men had been nice enough to get us tickets for it — he works there. He escorted us to a table he’d reserved for us, which just happened to be the best seats in the house.
As we sat, in walked a tall drink of water in a shiny red dress and full make up. This was our bingo announcer.
“I’ve been a drag queen for over twenty years…and I’m an equal opportunity bitch: I will fuck with every single one of you. And if you have a problem with that, why are you taking me seriously? I’m a six foot tall man in a dress.”
She didn’t disappoint. The evening was a two-hour long diatribe in which she roasted nearly everyone in the place, including herself. Oh yeah, and she would sometimes call out bingo numbers.
While we didn’t win, we got a lot of attention from her. “Look at these cuties, all sexy corporate looking. Coming in wearing full suits — one of you is just sexy, the other looks like a mormon.”
We have argued about which of us she called “sexy” ever since.
It was an amazing last event of the trip. What a riot!
“Real talk, guys”
We were writing when Kirk got home that night at about 1:30am. We’d been looking forward to this moment ever since Kirk said “I’m gonna tell you some things before you go, but not right now.”
The suspense was immense.
After some small talk about the game (Golden State!) Ryan asked straight up: “so what have you been waiting to tell us?”
His voice dropped almost to a whisper, as if we would be overheard.
“Guys, I’ve been in real estate for 45 years and I’ve never encountered white people. Never. I’ve gotten close to renting to them, but it never happened…now I have; it’s on my bucket list.”
Forty five years.
He went on. “You’re gonna remember this the rest of your lives. You may not think anything of it now, but as you get older you’ll see. This just doesn’t happen, fellas. You’ll tell your grandkids…when you get older you’ll be able to tell people “guess what I did: I lived in a black guys’ house. In Detroit — in the hood — for a month.”
This is not just a tenant-landlord relationship. We have proven to this man that the world is changing for the better. He took us in as his sons and treated us as such.
We then spoke about Detroit. Again, we summed up our research, but now we got real.
“Kirk, it would take a lot of work coming here. And even then, we’d be making contacts in Detroit, not in New York or any of the larger markets. We want to work in those larger markets at some point, but it’s so hard to start a company in a place that’s so expensive. And here we’d be making work for less expense but we’d have a very small audience because not many people go to the theater here. If we wanted to get those people to come we’d have to literally change their minds about what theatre is, or trick them into thinking it’s not theatre, whereas in New York people just go. We’re honestly more confused now than we were coming in.”
Kirk got real too: “you can do it, it just takes time. It’s gonna be ten years of your life, at least.”
That’s when it really sank in what kind of a project this would be. I (Rory) was right from the start, before any research: going to New York is about building my future; going to Detroit is about building the future of Detroit.
Is now the time? Do we want to spend our youth here with no guaranteed return on our investment?
That’s the question now.
How would you answer?
That’s not rhetorical; the comment section is just a scroll away.
All the best,
R&R
Should a Young Artist Move to Detroit? 
Guys,
First let me say it has been a pleasure for me to read and follow along with your journey in our fair city. I have enjoyed reading your blog and hosting you for a DCFC game.
What you are really facing is only figuring out what to do with your life post-college. So it should be simple….. just make a list of pros/cons and see which one is longer. Ok, definitely do NOT do that. That is a really crappy way to make a decision like this.
Remember when we talked and I mentioned that everyone has a story, and all of them are unique? Every place does as well. You have spent some time learning Detroit’s story. The real question is do you want to be a part of that story? What drives you? Is your goal to be the director of a Broadway show? Is your goal to make a difference, have fun, and live life to the fullest? Is your goal to make a crap ton of money? Is your goal to be famous? Is your goal to provide someone else a living by employing them?
Do you want to move in someone elses plan, even if it makes you more money or gives you fame, or do you want to be the one making stuff happen. Detroit is for doers and makers, not participators.
You have mentioned that you want to get to New York “eventually.” Not gonna lie, that sounds like giving the answer you are supposed to give when people ask you why you went to school in theater. It was like when I told people I wanted to be a lawyer, because that is what people who majored in political science do.
I have met both of you, and you are more then that.
You may still end up in New York, or Chicago, or LA, I mean who knows? Life has a funny way of getting you where you are needed the most. Just take a step back, think about the end goal of life as happiness, and see where that takes you.
All the best,
James
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James!
Thank you so much for the comments. I was reading your response this evening while shopping at Trader Joes and I ran into a fit of laughter at your dissuasion to do a Pros and Cons list.
Consistently throughout our trip we were asked, “What kind of plays or movies do you want to make?” Although I have a pretty good idea of what I like but hopefully I’ll be able to figure what stories I want to tell this year. This was a trip of a lifetime! I learned so much about myself and other people. We’ll see what happens!
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Makes sense to me if you’re confused, since the decision you’re trying to make is multi-faceted and nuanced. It’s not just about career, but also about community and lifestyle. When you think about career, you have to think of yourselves as performers, yes, but also as directors and producers since you both seem to want that as well.
In terms of doing your own work, the idea of things taking “ten years” has been tossed around and I think you’re right about that, but in a broader sense. In terms of production and direction, it’s going to take ten years to fully realize your dreams no matter where you go, you’ll just spend that time differently. In a smaller market you’ll get to do your own work right off the bat. You’ll be able to distinguish yourself more quickly, finances will be easier, things will go faster in general if you pick the right market. The trade off is you’ll have to spend more time connecting with your community and building/creating your audience. You’ll get to see what happens to your vision as it changes when seen through the lens of your own growth. If you go to a bigger market it’s almost the reverse—the audience is built in, the market in general is bigger but it’s expensive as hell, there’s much more competition and (notwithstanding some serendipitous connection) things might go slower in terms of actually getting to do your own work. But either way, I’d plan on 5-10 years to really feel like you’ve arrived at some version of your initial vision either way. Where (and how!) do you want to spend your youth, (which is such an adorable way to put it that I want to hug whichever one of you wrote that) indeed!
But a more important question may be this: as performers, how important is mainstream success to you? No judgement because there’s no right or wrong answer. Shunning popular recognition doesn’t make you more artistic and wanting it doesn’t make you a sell out. Nowadays people are doing great work all over and getting it seen—my friend’s children have an incredibly profitable YouTube channel, and indie movies and (obvs) theater can be made anywhere and still get national recognition (cough*Slipstream*cough). I have friends (not to mention my dad—he’s in “Machine Gun Preacher”) living and working in Detroit and Columbus who have been cast in movies out of Pittsburg and Chicago. You can still work on a “real” TV or movie set working in a small market. But. If it’s really important to you to be on a Broadway stage/on network or cable TV/in a big studio movie on a regular basis then I would say get thee to a major market. Like, yesterday. You’re both savvy enough to know that part of this business is a roll of the dice; there are super-talented and hardworking people that never “make it” in that way and supremely un-talented people who do and no matter how you slice it, there are a lot of both kinds in LA and NY all hustling for the same agents, managers, casting directors, auditions, etc, etc. That’s just the business. But some people do eventually make it. Yes, there’s value in getting your SAG or Equity status somewhere else before you go but to be honest, NY and LA have many wonderful qualities and resources but they are hard to live in—and not just because they are expensive as hell. It’s one thing to be a poor starving artist when you’re young and you live to hustle, but when you’re in your 30’s and you start to want things like nice vacations and less debt and not having to have 2 roommates it’s harder to make the adjustment (I speak from experience, mine and others). If that scene is where you find the beat of your heart and you can’t imagine it any other way, go now. I’ll drive you to the airport!
There are other questions to answer but those are the big ones and this post is way too long and I need to get back to my own blog! When I think of you two, I keep wondering if maybe more exploration is in order. Say you choose a home base for your summer stock in a smaller market where you can get it going. Then the rest of the year you investigate some other markets: spend pilot season in LA, target a workshop you want to take in NY and find a sublet for 3-6 months. I’d give yourself a hard end date-2 years or so–to make a decision about where you want to put your energy so you don’t get bogged down in a morass of possibilities. Yes, it would be a bit crazy and you’d have to get creative with income but at at the end you’d come out with a sense of the big markets you might be interested in and the communities that house them. Either way, you have some time. I love that you’re asking all these questions! You’ll figure it out. I’m not worried about you in the least.
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It’s really an existential question I’ve had to ponder myself. I’m going to turn to dust one day while the world keeps turning and babies keep coming. At the end of the day it’s a question of what will satiate you, and who do you do theatre for? Is it about the present, or the future? And neither answer is wrong, just be honest with yourself.
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Oh man it’s hard to say, I’m not sure which I’d lean towards. The big picture-aiming side of me would go for the new, ambitious world of Detroit and adapting in a theatre environment that would be a crazy and rewarding path. That part of me would love knowing that the work I’d be putting out would have a much more direct impact of change.
But the other half of me would want the New York/Chicago/LA route for being able to put up work that would probably, in less waiting time, be received and direct from the collaboration as opposed to thinkingb about getting people in the seats. And, at least for me, those theatre scenes are so enticing that I think I’d want the personal satisfaction of achieving some great theatre there.
That’s excluding all the financial and other business related factors as well though.
Anyway, I’ve really enjoyed reading your experiences on the blog and I have no doubt what decisions you guys make will be the fulfilling and satisfying choice. Best of luck with everything!
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The curfew talk was about lifting a long-time curfew that takes place every year during the Freedom Festival’s (we call it the Freedom Festival because it celebrates both Canada and US Independence, roughly a week apart) Firework’s night. No word on a decision as of tonight.
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Thanks, AJ! Good to know.
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Kirk ROCKS!
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